Learning About the On-Board Scanner the Hard Way

Sunday afternoon saw me now out in low security Derelik looking for some Sansha action.  The first order of business was scanning down some exploration sites to run, rather than simply ratting away in an exposed belt.  After all, even if some pirate group entered the system by the time they deployed probes and began to look for me, I would be long since docked up.  

The first site was cleared with little fan fare and I set a course for the second of the five sites that I had scanned down.  A player by the name of Djeepee entered the system just as I began to agro the spawns at the Sansha combat site.  Not concerning myself just yet, I finished up looting and salvaging with my alt on the first site, just as I took out the two battle ship and cruiser spawn that was the first wave of the second site.  

I brought in my alt and opened up the direction scanner and continued to hit the button every ten to fifteen seconds looking for the tell tale sign of scan probes.  At first nothing showed up and I was able to continue killing Sansha while looting and salvaging with the alt.  After I cleared the second spawn and began to work on the third, which was also a two battleship & two cruiser spawn, I now noticed an Ishtar showing up on the directional scanner.  I actually considered docking up for a moment, but again, with no probes in system and me safely tucked away in an anomaly and not exposed in the belt, I considered myself fairly safe. 

I even remember smiling to myself that he must think I am off in a nearby belt ratting and imagined how frustrated this would-be-pirate must be as he checked off nearby belts one by one only to be left empty handed.  There was just one Sansha in this wave left and still no probes.  Perhaps this would be my lucky site and I would get a nice faction spawn, maybe even one of those mythical officer spawns that I had heard so much about.  Visions of billion Isk modules danced in my head.  OMG THERE IS AN ISHTAR IN HERE AND HE’S TARGETING ME!!!!!!!!!!!




I hit my warp out button as the big heavy battle cruiser slowly spun around and got up to half speed.  I pleaded with the game and tabbed out to my alt to save her and her valuable salvage loot within her cargo hold.  Alas, the telltale warp scrambled broadcast across my screen and I knew my battle cruiser was tackled.  Local stayed with just the three of us as I set all of my drones on this Ishtar and directed fire off of the remaining Sansha BS and onto this foe.

He got in very VERY close and orbited me at 1000 meters.  Ogre II’s began to bite into my armor due to my extremely low resistance to explosive damage.  This fellow did his homework at least.  The Ishtar was down to half armor due to the drones and missile fire, but his armor repairer was coming alive and keeping up with the damage output of the ten small drones and heavy missiles. I highly doubt if my 650mm artillery II cannons ever connected due to the tackle he had on me.  My cap stable tank slowly but surely buckled under the fire and I went slowly from 80% armor down to 40% in just a minute.  I waited for enemy reinforcements that never came and switched my alt from DPS drones to armor rep drones as I tried to force a stalemate and perhaps a negotiation. 

Even with the medium armor drones helping out, my tank could not hold back against the DPS coming through an explosive hole in my tank.  I saw the last of my armor slip away and I fell into structure.  Armor still flashed as the repairer and drones strained to keep the ship alive.  But my attention now diverted to the millions in loot in my alt’s cargo hold.  I recalled her drones and got her out of there.  She was safely in warp by the time the Hurricane popped and I was able to get the pod out of there safely. 

The pirate gave me a nice GF in local and I responded in turn.  He now sat in his 15 minute “time-out” while the game shook its finger at him for attacking someone in low sec as gate guns and station guns would now shoot him on site due to his global criminal status.  As I safely docked my alt and unloaded her cargo, I spoke a bit with this player and he took the time to discuss my mistake with him and explain how the system scanner and directional scanner are used. 

I know it will make me look like a complete noob, but I had no clue that you could scan down anomalies by using your system scanner and visiting all of the planets to scan those areas of space individually.  The whole encounter also is going to help me out in future encounters as I fitted a remote armor repairer on my alt’s Vexor and have plans to get her into some ECM drones to be able to break another solo pirate’s lock onto my ship should the need arise. 

And of course the big question, how much did this little lesson cost me?

 2009.10.12 01:49:00

Victim: Centuri Nova
Corp: Hand of Hermes
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Hurricane
System: Hasateem
Security: 0.4
Damage Taken: 30005

Involved parties:

Name: Centus Plague Lord / Sansha’s Nation
Damage Done: 17160

Name: djeepee (laid the final blow)
Security: -3.1
Corp: Ratio Decidendi
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Ishtar
Weapon: Ogre II
Damage Done: 12845

Destroyed items:

Proton M, Qty: 970 (Cargo)
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Qty: 4
Damage Control II
Thunderbolt Heavy Missile, Qty: 2
EMP M, Qty: 1397 (Cargo)
‘Malkuth’ Heavy Missile Launcher I
Medium Armor Repairer II
EMP M, Qty: 56
Thunderbolt Heavy Missile, Qty: 514 (Cargo)

Dropped items:

Acolyte I (Drone Bay)
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Qty: 2
N-Type EM Hardener I
Gyrostabilizer II
Cap Recharger II, Qty: 3
‘Malkuth’ Heavy Missile Launcher I
10MN Afterburner II
EMP M, Qty: 28
Armor Thermic Hardener I, Qty: 2 

I believe that it was a net loss of around 15 million ISK once you count out the insurance payout.  Certainly not crippling by any means and at least it was a well learned lesson in scanner usage that I won’t soon forget.


~ by Centuri on October 13, 2009.

9 Responses to “Learning About the On-Board Scanner the Hard Way”

  1. Ogres do Thermal damage, and with those Thermal Hardener I’s you actually had a decent tank vs his damage type.

    I’ve never actually tried this, but rumor is that a ‘Cane actually can sport a much stronger passive shield tank than it can armor. I don’t know if your shield skills are up to snuff, but that might be something to look into also? It also frees up more lows for dps mods.

    And yeah, with the tackle he had on you, no way were you hitting him with 650 arties. Rumor also is that a ‘Cane is a much better AC boat, but I’m really talking out my ass here, just parroting things I’ve read on the forums. The only fit my Hurricanes have ever had involves tractor beams, salvagers, and cargo expanders. . . . .

    Sad to hear about the kill, but yeah, you defintely learned a good lesson that the d-scanner is quite useful even without probes. Highly skilled pirats have been using it for years in order to not need to fit probe launchers in their highs and sacrificing that last gun in order to do so.

  2. I always preferred arty to AC for PVE. I just like the range. I will have to look into the passive tanking setups. My shield skills are all either 4 or 5. More 4s than 5s though…

  3. Sorry for the double post, but… I did some EFT warrioring, using my skills, not the All 5’s, and I put in your fit from the killmail and also compared it vs not only the shield tank, but also tweaked a few things on your armor fit also.

    1st, the shield tank is about 15% stronger vs a 50/50 EM/Therm split, showing a dps rating of 254 (using Sansha specifi hardeners) vs the armor tank’s 218. Still, you’ve got 83% EM and 84% Thermal resists on your armor which is quite awesome. That 84% thermal is *very* nice vs those Ogre II’s as well.

    Downside — that Ishtar was pounding on you with Kinetic/Therm Blasters and your Kinetic resist is 36% Assuming he’s using CN AM rounds, he’s doing roughly a 60/40 Kin/Therm split to you and has close to 200 dps from the guns, plus another 475 pure thermal from the Ogres. Plugging this in to EFT for the damage resist profile and your armor tank drops to 147 but the shield tank holds at 218.

    Either way you’re broken, but the shield would actually last longer plus you’d have a 12000K shield buffer for him to chew through in the 1st place. It still wouldn’t have saved you in this case, though, so it’s a moot point.

    As far as weapons go, with your 650 Arties you get a lovely alpha strike of 1400. Taken over time and adding in your 2 missile launchers we get a 271 dps rating, but poor tracking. Get this, though — replacing 1 cap recharger with a web maintains your cap stability so long as you aren’t permarunning your AB and allows you to slow those closer targets down — this is useful in PvE as well as PvP. In your fight, that 1 module difference might have enabled you to web and shoot either him or his Ogres.

    Had you been fit with autocannon 425’s, your dps rating would have climbed to 351 and your tracking would have been significantly better, especially if you maintained the web in place of a cap charger. Only about 11 km range for optimal plus falloff, though, so less than ideal for PvE, but would have worked wonders vs that Ishtar and his drones, since both of them were actually inside your optimal of 1.4 km.

    Shield tank fits 3 Gyros, not 1, so its dps with 425’s is 428, but I can’t fit 2 launchers on with that size of gun unless I use a 3% CPU implant (in which case dps is rated 462). Downgrading to 220’s and using 2 Makluth’s nets me 445 dps rating there. Kind of a 6 of 1 half dozen of the other thing there, ya know? TBH, the smaller guns are probably better becuz then you can fit a slightly better named launcher, not need a fitting implant AND have better tracking on the 220’s to boot.

    Final thought — use Hobgoblin drones. Acolytes have a much lower damage modifier and the thermal damage type from the Hobbies is an overall “better in general” type to use against just about anything.

  4. I clearly need to master the power of the EFT.

  5. Can you post the final setup you arrived at? I am having trouble getting the same results from EFT.

  6. Shield Tank + AC’s on top, your fit on bottom

    Notice — the shield tank requires the rigs to be “as good” as your armor tank, and you can’t remove any mid slots for a web.

    Your fit with the AC’s instead of Arties And the web too.

    For grins I added 3 armor repper rigs to the “Cane 03” fit also so you can see it adds 80 dps rating to your tank. I don’t know what those rigs cost, though, and vs that Ishtar it still wouldn’t have saved you unless you were able to web and shoot his drones… or him before he got you. Downside to the better tank is that the rigs do cut your speed down a bit.

    FWIW, I used a 50/50 EM/Therm split for the defense ratings.

    If you choose to use Barrage ammo in the AC’s you gain a bit of range, but lose tracking. Many will tell you the trade off is worth it, but I’m not really a projectile fighter, so I couldn’t tell you there.

    Overall, I’d say the armor tank is actually superior “in general” to the shield tank, but as you can see from my prior comment and the 1st pic linked here, there are situations where the shield tank would be stronger. But the armor tank also allows for more flexibility and more ability to “hybridize” your fit to be able to handle pvp and pve both, if necessary. Shield tank doesn’t offer that at all.

    As an additional “FWIW” — on the “Cane 03” fit, if you put a Medium Cap Booster II on and use the 200 sized charges, you can put a Warp Disruptor II in place of the other Cap Recharger and be cap stable with the AB on. . . at least until you run out of the cap booster charges. What this does for you is a) no loss of pve potential — tank and dps are both the same, and b) you’re pvp fit and might have been able to take out that Ishtar before he got you.

    Downside is the expense of buying the 200’s and the loss of cargo space, but since you have the alt doing the looting, cargo space shouldn’t be an issue.

  7. Holy cow @ your missile and shield skills. Your heavy missiles go about 25k further than mine do.

    I ended up sticking with the armor tank but switched to a web + 425mm II AC. I then swapped out the heavy missiles for some arbalest assaults that I picked up from mission loot. For my low missile skills, I make better use of the smaller missiles anyway. Also most of the rats that spawn in the .2-.4 sites I am running are cruiser and below. Webbed targets pretty much explode once they get in close enough for the AC to start working in on them.

    So the setup I went with was your Cane 02 with assault missiles instead of heavy.

    I looked into getting rigs as well, but wanted to see what kind of return on investment I can get out here. With my current setup (unrigged) a loss is about 15 million. 3 medium armor rigs would prob add another 15-25 million on top of that already.

    So many options to be better prepared. Perhaps I can catch the next would be attacker unawares by setting up my salvage Vexor for PVP with an armor buffer tank, scrambler and a web. I also have another 1.5 days of training to fit the shield power relay II if I wanted to go the passive shield route.

  8. I started as a Caldari Spec Ops, so I had Missile Bombardment 5 from the get-go. It’s been nice for the missile range ever since I started. And for the shield skills, I’m almost “done” with the Engineering section of the skills now. “Done” = trained everything in there that I want to 5. Only 4 skills to go. . . . But other things are more important than taking a month to train 4 skills for extremely marginal gains, ya know?

  9. […] covert ops ship, bookmark anything worth doing and then switch out to my AC Cane, Bait Ship II.  Bait Ship I was a previous loss to pirates that helped me learn a bit more about the on board scanni….  Shortly thereafter pirate scouts would stick their heads into the system from the neighboring […]

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